Sunita Narain Exclusive: North India Floods | A Man-Made Catastrophe Worsened By Climate Change? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXEybaf1XOE
Sunita, I appreciate you joining us.
You've been among those who've been
screaming from the rooftops year after
year saying that we are heading for a
climate emergency. Is there something
different that you've noticed this time
just the sheer spread of the nature of
the floods across every state of North
India?
Absolutely Raj this year is devastating.
It is cat catastrophic.
And the point is and that's what we have
to understand that this is about climate
change but this is also not about
climate change because what we have to
understand is that there is so much that
we are doing wrong with the way we are
doing development whether it is the fact
that we are destroying drainage in
Punjab or that we are building like um
um no tomorrow in the Himalayas which
means that the mountains are more and
more vulnerable.
And on top of that, you're getting
intense frequent
extreme weather events and that is
linked to climate change. So you have to
understand we're sitting on a precipice
and then you get this extreme weather
events and that's what's driving this
human massive human tragedy that we are
seeing unfolding in front of our eyes.
These floods are not about water.
They're about the devastation of
people's lives, homes, property,
development assets, roads, highways,
everything getting destroyed.
You know, let let's break what you said
into the two parts. Uh I want to start
with the man-made nature of this
tragedy. We've seen this in Himachal
Pradesh encroachments right on the
hillsides on the Himalayas. We've seen
it in Ward last year uh where there was
this terrible devastation that took
place again with landslides and we've
seen it this year again in Punjab this
time encroachments along the flood
planes uh poor maintenance of
embankments clogged drains in our
cities. So are you saying that part of
this is man-made and part of it is just
these is is the nature of what climate
change is doing to weather patterns.
See Raj climate change is a reality.
Let's be absolutely sure about that. If
you look at this year itself, you are
seeing from all government data, you are
seeing something very unusual that has
happened this year, which is increased
frequency of western disturbances during
the monsoon period. We always had
western disturbances but not of the
number that we are seeing this year. Now
what that is doing is that you have an
active monsoon, you get the western
disturbance, you get this collision
happening and then you get this massive
rainfall. You're also getting our own
data. We have been tracking the cloud
burst just in the last two months.
You have got as many as 21 cloud burst
instances over the two three Himalayan
states. Now just think about that. That
intense frequency and intensity is
climate change. When I talk about the
western disturbance, Raji, why is this
happening? It's happening because it is
linked to a global phenomena which is
the Arctic jetream which is the western
disturbances are winds that come from
the Mediterranean all the way to India.
The weakening of the Arctic jetream
because of climate change means that
these systems are getting more and more
erratic and that is linked to climate
change. So this is not something you and
I can do anything about today. We need
to fight it but clearly we are not
cutting emissions at the scale that we
can turn this around.
But what is adding to it and what is
exacerbating this is the fact that we
are doing development so badly. Raji we
have to understand that this is going to
happen. So if you look at the flooding
in Gorga it's not because Gorga has got
excess rain only. It's also because
every drainage system has been
deliberately willfully destroyed. We
have not planned for the rains. Now you
can argue you can never plan for this
quantity of rains but we have to start
planning and executing. We're doing
everything wrong. We are clearing roads
in the Himalayas. We're building more
and more. My
my worry my my worry. Sorry to stop you
for a moment. My my my worry you know
Sunita is that
all of this that you're saying you've
said before experts like you have been
banging your heads on the door saying
for God's sake wake up and smell the
rain. Uh if I may use that word but the
truth of the matter is there is very
little happening on the ground. Punjab
this time has been completely caught in
a way unawares you could argue but we've
seen that in other states as well.
Himachel Pradesh is a disaster now every
year. So is Uttarakhand
last year it was Kerala I mean everyone
knows the problem you cannot have
encroachments on on eosensitive areas on
hillsides on flood planes it's all known
but do you see anyone moving for a
national plan at all you know Rajib I
think you know frankly I've stopped
going on television for this reason
saying what can you keep repeating you
know that this is happening the fact is
we have climate change but that we can
do nothing about. But at least you can
start accepting the fact that every year
extreme weather events are going to
increase. You have to accept the fact
the Himalayas are the world's youngest
mountain range. They are the most
vulnerable. You cannot you have to start
planning for it. Our forecasting systems
are down. We do not have enough good
forecasting systems. Preparedness has to
be improved. Drainage has to be improved
and we cannot build in flood planes
allow encroachment at the scale. Rajiv
it's I'm only sharing with you my
anguish once again. My sense of
frustration to say we have to understand
something is changing in our world and
each year it'll get worse. You are
seeing it. You and I each year are
seeing it happen.
Do you believe? Do you do you believe
though that this do you believe though
that the planning sunita must do you
believe the planning must be at the
state level or the center because we've
seen part of the problem is that there
is absolutely no coordination between
the center and states on these critical
issues. Now is the is the is
decentralization the way forward making
states and even further down districts
responsible in a way for this kind of
planning because the truth of the matter
is corruption. A lot of these
encroachments, let's be honest, is plain
and simple corruption, a brazen
violation of all all regulation. So it's
not more laws, it's implementation. And
who does that center or states?
No, it has to be the state. But Rajep, I
think we have to go beyond words. Now
I'm so tired of all these fancy
conferences, meetings, discussions on
adaptation, resilience, talking about
planning for the Himalayas. I have just
cleared in principle the charardham road
across the most vulnerable part of the
Himalayas where theoda trees are going
to be cut across draun I'm getting uh
plea after plea from people saying we
are cutting more and more trees now
roads are needed communication is needed
but surely we need to plan better we
need to keep understanding that these
are vulnerable regions this has to be
the onus of the State the state has to
understand with each flood every
development dividend is being lost.
Today Rajep the situation is we are
building roads and the roads are getting
wiped away with every flood every
landslide. We have to understand that
this is revenge of nature and nature is
telling us that this is going to get
worse every year. And we have to start
as you said, smell the rain.
We have to start understanding that this
is
not going to get better unless we make
it better. Whether it's done at the
center or state, I don't know. I only
know that it's beyond words and
conferences and fancy documents. We need
it translated on the ground. It's a
human tragedy.
Sunita Naran, strong strong words from
you and I appreciate you joining us. Uh
always good to have you on TV. These are
the voices that we need to hear and
hopefully those in power are listening.
enough of your summits in air
conditioned uh hotels in in the national
capital. Go to the ground and make sure
there is implementation of the laws that
are put in place particularly in the eco
sensitive zones of this country.